BoE and Turi

[lotesse]

Okay, all former PonyPals. Tell me what you think of Turimel's upcoming book.

I'm not sure where I stand on this. On the one hand, I'd really like to have all the information, as I ended up standing dazed on the edge of all of it, and the proceeds are going to reimburse those that lost money, and sociologically I think that the whole thing is fascinating. But, I'm also worried that fandom will end up looking like a freakshow, and I don't want BoE to get the tabloid treatment. I really did love it, at least the Pony, which was thankfully free from most of the crazy.

PonyPals, will you buy it? Should it be printed? Why or why not?

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

What always worries me about this story is often the people involve seem to not really know how it comes off. It's fascinating listening to the weird things that went on, but often the scam seems like a team effort (which is not to say anyone deserved to get ripped off whatsoever).

I mean, it amazes me hearing many people tell their story and they'll explain what Amy said and why they believed it...only as an outsider it's impossible to understand how they did believe it. It just doesn't sound all that reasonable, even without knowing all the other stuff that was going on. So unfortunately I think there is always the danger that people will think they're finally getting a chance to tell their story, when really it won't sound so credible or they'll get hurt again. Like, the obvious suspicion to have is that it wasn't that anybody was a very good liar, just that you wanted whatever they were offering so much you were gullible. Which again doesn't mean you deserve to be robbed, it's just I hope everybody is prepared to see their own actions put in the harshest light, you know?

[lotesse]

Yeah. I was lucky; as a young person living in Michigan, getting involved in the events wasn't an option for me. I just loved the messageboards to death and parctically set up housekeeping. the crash was very difficult for me, because Abbey was one of the first people I interacted with in fandom, back when I only played on ff.n. She was one of the first people to consistently read my stories. And I admired Amy to the point of shyness, which is probably a good thing in retrospect.

I think one of the problems is that most people didn't hear about the channeling or the Irish Republican Army or any of the other really weird stuff. I know I didn't. They just seemed like two lesbians who likes the same character we did. Yes, the VB/Mr. Frodo thing was odd, but there are many reasons why a lesbian might find it easier to live as a man, and I think that's how most regarded it. From my vantage point, at least, they seemed like, good, sweet, honest people. Trust me--if I had know about the channelling, I would have been outta there so fast!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

LOL! Oh, I'm sure you would! I don't think just having contact with them would necessarily tip you off. It was more, like you said, stuff like the IRA thing or whatever, where somebody would explain that away to themselves in order to, like, give them money. It just seems harder to believe to outsiders, I'm sure!

[lotesse]

Thing is, there wer only a few people who saw all the crazy, but there were a lot of people who got scammed, a lot of people who had no idea these two girls were so messed up. Sean Astin, for one. A lot of people gave money in good faith, a lot of actors gave endorsements, and only a few people knew about any of the stuff that made them Not Nice Girls.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, absolutely. There's plenty of people who saw what looked like a good idea and donated money they could afford (and obviously when Sean Astin is actually there it's got validation). Really, the lucky people are the ones who are maybe just more suspicious now, as opposed to people who are still dealing with major fallout.

not to be ignorant, but

[slashfairy.livejournal.com]

What is PonyPals? and why was it stolen? and where do the tabloids come in?

Re: not to be ignorant, but

[lotesse]

The PonyPals were the denizens of the Prancing Pony MB, a part of BitOfEarth.net, a Sam fansite. The site crashed because it had come to be used as a phony charity by a pair of lesbian transsexual hobbit-channelling con artists, hence the tabloids. One of the women who got scammed is publishing a book telling the story.

[anima-mecanique.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think it's a horrible idea. This scam is bigger than just her -- Sean Astin was involved, for god's sake. The book might put out the truth about Amy and Abby, but what will the whole mess look like to outsiders? It will look like a freakshow of gullible losers and lunatic fans. It will eviscerate the reputation of the fandom. If the worst happens and this mess gets widespread press, it will probably make it nearly impossible for the fandom to set up legitmate charity ventures. Who would trust a subculture that produced that debacle? In my opinion, the book is bitterness getting ahead of good judgement.

I can't speak for the "Inner Circle", so to speak, but almost all of us on the boards had never heard any of the IRA-escaping, Merry-channelling stories. We barely interacted with OB and MrFrodo, as they were known then. They hardly ever visited the boards. Their story seems transparent when you have all their emails and later information, but hindsight is 20/20. At the time it looked like nothing more than a couple of overeager folks who failed due simply to honest incompetance. We wanted to help them out. How were we to know any different? We got a lot of abuse right after TentMoot Crash from (mainly Fandom_Wank) visitors who seemed to think we should have run a background check on them or something. Frankly, I think such people can go hang, but that is a viewpoint that we're likely to get a lot of if this thing spreads out of fandom.

[lotesse]

I know, honey, I was there. :)

But Turi is also one of us, and I do believe that she's a level-headed, fair person. I'd expect her to be very careful in her manner of presentation. And the foreword is by Tehanu, who has a lot of fandom cred. It's not like this is being done by outsiders. These are our own people, and they were right there with us. the f_w'ers weren't.

Not arguing one side or the other; I know you feel strongly about this. I do too, and I'm really not sure that this is a good idea at all. But it is Turi, and I do have some faith in her.

[anima-mecanique.livejournal.com]

I know you were there...I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were outside or anything...

The thing is, it might be written by our own, and by respected fandom people, but once it's in published book format, the audience is no longer just fandom. I guess I might be hypersensitive...it might come from being a gamer, which is still an incredibly misunderstood subculture. I have friends whose parents honestly think that by playing D&D they are putting themselves a mere step away from sacrificing kittens to Satan. All this was caused by a court case, a handful of movies, and a boatload of sensational misinformation. I guess in my own way I'm being bitter too -- I'm afraid of something like that happening to LOTR fandom, even in a small way.

It's not about not trusting Turimel. It could be anyone writing the book and I'd still feel the same way. I know how badly she was hit by them, and believe me, I have sympathy. But this is the wrong way to get back at them.

[anima-mecanique.livejournal.com]

I know you were there...I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were outside or anything...

The thing is, it might be written by our own, and by respected fandom people, but once it's in published book format, the audience is no longer just fandom. I guess I might be hypersensitive...it might come from being a gamer, which is still an incredibly misunderstood subculture. I have friends whose parents honestly think that by playing D&D they are putting themselves a mere step away from sacrificing kittens to Satan. All this was caused by a court case, a handful of movies, and a boatload of sensational misinformation. I guess in my own way I'm being bitter too -- I'm afraid of something like that happening to LOTR fandom, even in a small way.

It's not about not trusting Turimel. It could be anyone writing the book and I'd still feel the same way. I know how badly she was hit by them, and believe me, I have sympathy. But this is the wrong way to get back at them.

[lotesse]

No worries:)

I do know what you mean, and I have terrible misgivings about it. Out of curiosity, is there any way you think it could be done right? Or should we just bury it and try to forget?

[anima-mecanique.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure. It probably could be done right, but I can't think of a way that would be accomplished. Burying it and forgetting is not the right thing to do either, but writing and promoting a book about it...I don't know, it almost seems to give the incident a sort of glamour, when it was really nothing more than an ugly, hurtful deception. Admittedly it's pretty bizarre in its scope, but...I think the last thing the whole mess needs right now is more publicity.

[hyel.livejournal.com]

I'd like to have a copy, although I'm not sure I'll get a chance to buy it (no credit card, live in Finland). I'm interested. I don't think there'll be unpleasantness as a result, except possibly to Turimel, although I understand why the people who were involved, however little, will get emotional.