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[lotesse]

I don't want free college, I want k-12 reform. Students waste years' worth of time in glorified baby pens, and then have to pay out the ear for a bachelor's degree - okay, so how about we try educating them before they turn 18, with the taxpayer-funded free system we've already got? And anyway, how many years of one's life should be held hostage to these kinds of certification mills? I'm all for lifelong learning, but this is ridiculous.

Comments

[senmut]

THIS!

[naraht]

I don't know, I don't feel like they're mutually exclusive.

Introducing tuition fees and eliminating maintenance grants in the UK have not (IMO) done anything to improve schools or educational outcomes generally.

[lotesse]

I mean, they're not of course - but there are a few factors that make me really hesitant to prioritize free tuition as a first step. Right now, US institutions are imo predating on students, not providing sufficient institutional support and not investing sufficiently in teaching. Undergrads are lured into higher ed by promises that do not materialize; people with college degrees make better wages, but that's to some degree correlation not causation. It's also my impression that UK degrees are much more streamlined things than US ones, which are increasingly cadging extra tuition by setting up ridiculous requirements leading to five-year BAs.

tldr colleges are becoming burdensome, and I don't think they should be encouraged in it. Limit president/top admin pay, or tie it to in-state tuition, and support graduating high school seniors in a variety of development paths. The full tuition/scholarship student mix in colleges is imo not the core of the problem.

[anghraine]

I'm definitely of the por qué no los dos school of thought on uni (totally against capitalist education, lol, and I think a lot of scholars are trying very hard to figure out better pedagogical approaches), but I do agree that K-12 should be highest priority.