tied him to a tree like saint sebastian

[lotesse]

two questions about the Vorkosigan Saga:

1. how does swearing someone work in terms of the armsmans' score/Vorloupulous' law? When Miles swears Arde and Baz in - when Mark swears Elena - do those count as additions to the number of Vorkosigan Armsmen? Because neither boy acts as though a slot needs to be open before a swearing can happen, on penalty of high treason. Is there a textual explanation, or is it a crack in the narrative?

2. Why, when Bujold so obviously understands why aspects of Miles' courtship of Ekaterin are really borderline in terms of acceptable behavior, does she choose to have the story go down that way? There are all of these words about how Ekaterin needs some time, some confidence, some space - Bujold clearly does get it, at some level. Does she just not care? Why was it necessary for her to write the story about Miles pushing Ekaterin's consent and disrespecting her boundaries and still getting her to marry him in the end?

It would have been really cool if it had gone the other way, actually been a healthy and functional romance all the time, instead of just some of the time.

Comments

[oursin]

Not McIntyre or Charnas???

[ithiliana]

This comment set off some wonderful creative explosive thoughts -- but I was dashing around and getting ready for a conference so could not answer until today!

*LITEBULB*

I was thinking not only of fiction when I wrote my reply about "second wave feminsts" but also the theory and non-fiction!

And I did not make that clear--and since we were talking about fiction, obviously I should have (it's a tough time at the moment).

But back to your question: Vonda McIntyre's work is incredible and I realized that I don't consider limited to the problematic Second Wave elements (as I do Bujold and Wrede): she was certainly part of that major 70s change in sff, but as a somewhat younger writer than Russ (checking Wikipedia, I see there's about ten years of age difference), but also I don't 'count' her as similar to Bujold and Wrede because of some of her sf (specifically the Starfarers series) has so much more intersectionality in it (that's the problem with the "wave" theory -- it is necessary perhaps but implies a homogeneity which is inaccurate).

So, definitely McIntyre would be someone whose work I can and do still read.

Charnas....is complicated. I've had a hard time reading her major Motherlines work since the first time I picked up the first novel in the series--not because it's bad but because it's just so brilliantly and comprehensively dystopian and bleak. I think her work is incredibile important, but I don't re-read it because I get too depressed (and I've never taught it).

Speaking of other major feminist sf authors who were publishing in the 70s, I have to admit I gave up on LeGuin after _Tehanu_ -- I so disliked that book, and none of her more recent work has tempted me in.

But I wouldn't put Wrede or Bujold in the same category of feminist writer that I would place Russ and Charnas (and to a certain extent LegGuin and McIntyre).

And of course all categories are constructed, and subjective--Russ for me is the single most important writer of fiction and non-fiction.

Another one who is nearly as important and amazing is Melissa Scott (whose work is WAY overlooked, especially her sf -- I think there seems to be a bit more vocal fandom/attention paid to her fantasy novels which I find OK, but not nearly as gripping as her sf).

And a key component is that their works are not just about (heterosexual) gender but are more intersectional (Scott does more with ethnicity and class than Russ does).

Not sure this is making sense for anybody but me, but thank you for the question!

[lotesse]

Theory-wise, I also want to sort Adrienne Rich into the box with Russ and McIntyre and LeGuin. of the time but not "second wave" in that way y/n?

[ithiliana]

Me too. On phone waiting for airport shuttle boy hope to talk more. In think it has to do with intersectionality.

[ithiliana]

*definitely yes*