get your lipstick on get in the ring
Sep. 14th, 2013 04:36 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lotesseI've just finished listening to Captain Vorpatril's Alliance, and while I love nothing more in all the world than listening to Lois McMaster Bujold audiobooks - seriously, it's ridiculous, I have a problem, I just keep listening to Komarr over and over again - it gave me the time to pinpoint why I'm not thrilling about Ivan and Tej, and why I have a hard time thinking of CVA as Vorkosiverse canon. Except for the sinking ImpSec part, because that is genius. Appalling, wonderful, eucatastrophic genius.
I love LMB's romances, by and large; Aral/Cordelia, Alys/Simon, and Miles/Ekaterin are a lot of what I keep rereading for. But I can't take much joy in Ivan/Tej; in my initial reaction post, I mentioned the hypersexualization thing, the way the narrator pervs on Tej, and that's not my main issue. That's something bigger, that has to do with Ivan Xav Vorpatril and his two faces.
Ivan plays mediocre; this is something established in many of the books. Ivan also plays disinterested/disengaged, as seen in A Civil Campaign - twice, actually. First when By is surprised at how much Ivan tracks Barrayaran politics, but most vividly in that (adorable) scene with Miles when Ivan loudly declares that he doesn't want to get involved, Miles takes him at his words, and Ivan then sulks off all "but who will take care of him and save the day" and ends up putting himself totally in the middle of everything. Ivan isn't really disengaged, he just plays it - not, as he plays foolishness, to protect himself from the public, but to protect himself from his family - I'm reminded of Kareen telling Mark that Miles eats you up, and if it's true of Miles then god knows it's also true of Alys, and Aral, and most of the rest of the significant people in Ivan's life. But Ivan also has the family gifts/diseases, if in less flashy ways. He isn't really a mundie, and he doesn't really, deep down inside, want to be one. His fussing is part of a game that he plays, particularly with Miles and Alys - Cordelia calls him on it in Mirror Dance.
Okay, but the qualities that Tej seems to value in her Ivan Xav are his ordinariness and desire to avoid centrality. And those are only one of Ivan's parts - and it's the other one, the Vor one, that I'm interested in, I admit it. So I feel like the whole ship is based on false pretenses. We see some of that in the text, with Tej being taken aback to find out that Ivan isn't just some guy but is instead third in line to the Barrayaran Empire, the only son of the Emperor's Hostess, and the stepson of Aral Vorkosigan's Dog. The text kind of plays it off as a joke - and if Ivan were really only his mundie mask, I could see that working out. But I end the novel off by feeling worried about Tej, Jacksonian as she is - because she has no idea who the fuck these nice welcoming people actually are.
And I also - well, I like Ivan's Vor face best, you know? I want Ivan pushed out of his contentment, revealed as the fucking excellent mensch he really is. And Tej seems to me to be a sign that Bujold doesn't share that want.
I love LMB's romances, by and large; Aral/Cordelia, Alys/Simon, and Miles/Ekaterin are a lot of what I keep rereading for. But I can't take much joy in Ivan/Tej; in my initial reaction post, I mentioned the hypersexualization thing, the way the narrator pervs on Tej, and that's not my main issue. That's something bigger, that has to do with Ivan Xav Vorpatril and his two faces.
Ivan plays mediocre; this is something established in many of the books. Ivan also plays disinterested/disengaged, as seen in A Civil Campaign - twice, actually. First when By is surprised at how much Ivan tracks Barrayaran politics, but most vividly in that (adorable) scene with Miles when Ivan loudly declares that he doesn't want to get involved, Miles takes him at his words, and Ivan then sulks off all "but who will take care of him and save the day" and ends up putting himself totally in the middle of everything. Ivan isn't really disengaged, he just plays it - not, as he plays foolishness, to protect himself from the public, but to protect himself from his family - I'm reminded of Kareen telling Mark that Miles eats you up, and if it's true of Miles then god knows it's also true of Alys, and Aral, and most of the rest of the significant people in Ivan's life. But Ivan also has the family gifts/diseases, if in less flashy ways. He isn't really a mundie, and he doesn't really, deep down inside, want to be one. His fussing is part of a game that he plays, particularly with Miles and Alys - Cordelia calls him on it in Mirror Dance.
Okay, but the qualities that Tej seems to value in her Ivan Xav are his ordinariness and desire to avoid centrality. And those are only one of Ivan's parts - and it's the other one, the Vor one, that I'm interested in, I admit it. So I feel like the whole ship is based on false pretenses. We see some of that in the text, with Tej being taken aback to find out that Ivan isn't just some guy but is instead third in line to the Barrayaran Empire, the only son of the Emperor's Hostess, and the stepson of Aral Vorkosigan's Dog. The text kind of plays it off as a joke - and if Ivan were really only his mundie mask, I could see that working out. But I end the novel off by feeling worried about Tej, Jacksonian as she is - because she has no idea who the fuck these nice welcoming people actually are.
And I also - well, I like Ivan's Vor face best, you know? I want Ivan pushed out of his contentment, revealed as the fucking excellent mensch he really is. And Tej seems to me to be a sign that Bujold doesn't share that want.
no subject
Date: 2013-09-14 10:43 pm (UTC)(oh btw, since you're listening to the audiobooks: how is Tej pronounced? I'm not sure if it's the English 'j' or if it's more of an English 'i' or 'y' sound.)
no subject
Date: 2013-09-14 11:29 pm (UTC)Ivan and Tej
Date: 2015-01-01 06:32 am (UTC)Whether she can deal with Barrayar is another question. But there must be a way to do so other than Cordelia's. Tej's approach might be something like Mark's.