Piotr's armsmen, yes. hmm. but they become Aral's on him death, I think. At least, Esterhazy does. and Bothari.

I think it's very telling that Bujold's beta was Patricia C. Wrede; I see the same good seeds in both, but bad seeds in both as well, and in some of the same weak spots. And they both give me that "limited second-wave foremother" sad feeling - admittedly, Bujold less, but I think she's also won more goodwill than Wrede ever had, and hasn't yet been tested with the same pressure.